Rule Changes Discussion
Please post any rule changes you think would benefit the AHBA. To get it started here's one from Dean Anyone that has been around Dean Wickwire has heard a proposed change for the HOY score. I thought we could talk about it on the board. The proposal is that you would get 1 point for every hound you beat. instead of the current system based on a 10% reduction on the total for each place below 1st. We would keep the differential for World, Regional State Hunts. Example 15 dogs entered 1=14 2=13 3=12 4=11 5=10 6=9 7=8 8=7 9=6 10=5 Anyone have any thoughts? Please post your own ideas for changes as well.

The reason for the change is that hounds are getting points in small hunts even if they do nothing. At last Labor Day's hunt, Y. Lee was in a class of 3 grands. He did not run, he did barely enough to avoid getting tossed out. But he got 80% of the entry or 2.4 points. He did not beat any hound and if there had been more hounds, he would have still been last. He deserved no points As an option, in Eric's example, the first place hound could earn 15 points, a one point bonus for winning.

Scoring Procedures
Dean's proposal has to do with HOY points and how they are figured. I believe that YLee deserved the points because you had to haul him and pay for entry. People traveling hundreds of miles to enter hounds in hunts deserve all of the points they can get. I believe if you study the proposal carefully you will determine that the dogs would still finish the way they do; just their total points would be different. At Michigan hunts some of us enter all of their bassets (even retirees) so people can have numbers of hounds to run their hounds against and get more HOY points. Where we should have point changes is when hounds move from Open Class to Champion class. Why don't we just have 3 wins in Open Class to be Champion and not worry about points for each place?

"At Michigan hunts some of us enter all of their bassets (even retirees) so people can have numbers of hounds to run their hounds against and get more HOY points. " So what you are saying is ...You artifically inflate the points for a dog by adding dogs that cannot compete?

I think HOY should be about hounds and their owners.. not just the dogs. The people who travel to hunts supporting the club. Those people should be the ones invited to run in the HOY. I had a dog invited to the HOY. Although she came into season, I was not bringing her to compete because she didnt deserve it. I ran her in 3 hunts and a good majority of the dogs she beat didnt have a clue about hunting. New dogs...pets...young dogs... She got a lot of points because she ran against dogs that could not compete. Shes a good dog...real good... but she did not deserve it Rod the rules allow you to add the retired dogs and thats the problem with the HOY scoring...its the same as running against pets ...new dogs and the young ones. It artifically inflates the points.

Mund, That's your opinion and you are entitled to have it. I'm glad not everyone thinks like that. When I first started in the AHBA my dogs were all the non competitive dogs you are talking about, but I'm glad everyone welcomed me and my NON COMPETITIVE dogs. I learned alot about handling dogs. about their health and care ,it let me spend time in the outdoors with my son, and yes after many many hunts my dog became competitive.Now that my Bomber dog is 7 he will be slowing down soon, should I leave him at home because he is not on the top of his game,I like to think he will still be welcome even when he is NON COMPETITIVE he just likes to be out there and run. Aren't NON COMPETITIVE dogs the building blocks of this organization? Without them we don't have much future. As far as your slam at certain individuals Don't do it! ALL the older guys who have started this organization had a purpose and that was to improve the breed and bring them back to great hunting dogs I think they ALL have done a great job at that. Certain little rules should be open for friendly discussion but the future is the NON COMPETITIVE DOGS.

Tim......WELL PUT!!! TOO much emphsis on HOY POINTS and trials and Championships etc....The trials are an instrument for our orginazation...So to all the die hard trialers...Don't ruin it for the novice!!!!!!To qoute Jim R....At one time said..Tounge in cheek!!!

Tim ...maybe you should reread my post .. First of all you dont know me ...and I not exacly sure why we dont all think like that. Your probably reading this thinking i'm some hardcore trialer ... I'm not I could care less about the scores. I show up to meet others who like running their dogs. I dont care if my dogs win or lose. As long as they run rabbits for me in hunting season. I'm happy. I'd like to see all the trophies..HOY..champion this ..grand that ...go away. I think the club would be better off just running dogs for fun.... but your right " I'm glad not everyone thinks like that. " But if he club wants to bestow a title to a dog. Then why not make it earn the title. Otherwise why even have the title. But... I pointed out a problem with how the HOY points are given and you want to jump all over me. "Don't do it! " ...LOL ...yeah ok ...

We need all of the new people and their pet type hounds, and I think we get more newbies here in PA than elsewhere. -- I will enter non-running young hounds for training and experience. In my example of why we need to change the system, Y. Lee traveled a whopping 23 miles--- 23 or 578 doesn't matter !!! He did not deserve any points!!! he was entered only to make a class of 3. He did a pathetic job and I would have DQed him if I were the judge. Rod's choice of words made it sound as though hounds are entered only to inflate the available point count, I don't brlieve that is exactly what he meant. However, let's not make the HOY points cheap ---- unless it defeats an other hound, does Fido deserve points-- NO!! I don't care how far the hound traveled, or who brought it. The hounds should have to EARN HOY points

TRASH RUNNING! on a two hunt weekend I've seen dogs that ran deer on Sat. Be entered the next day!!!!I feel those hounds should not be allowed to run the rest of the weekend!!!! I feel that those issues cannot be corrected by most in that weekend!!!!Even though my hounds will run a pheasent or grouse some would also consider it trash...CATS are definately TRASH!!!!Some feel it funny to run a cat,IT"S NOT! Chasing someones Tabby underneath there garage woodpile etc.,isn't good for our sport..It has a tendency to upset people, and hate us no good for nothing HUNTERS....even more!!My personal feeling is if you let your hounds run anything other than your Targeted game you are not a true houndsperson and are only fooling yourself!!!!Some of them will trash but it NEEDS to be corrected!!!!!

I'm talking about TRASH RUNNING! Lets keep our terms strait! Still If they bump it one day they'll bump it the next...I've met many a coon hunter who clams there dogs bump Bobcats at night are usually running grey foxes!!!Fishers!!! I've hunted cats for years!!!!!Lets not compare apples to grapes..I do understand where you are comming from Buckshot but I've been to enough of these hunts and seen to many trash runs that this needs attention!!!I usually don't worry about my hounds trashing..in fact most of mine are pretty much check dogs...Iwork real hard at keeping my hounds straight...but every now and than if a young hound gets sucked in with one of the trash runners it tends to upset one!! Some people feel that this trash running issue cures itself....These are the ones I'm talking about....I'm sure you know what your hound is running..As I've stated several time my Bluetick coon hounds are my top dogs in the kennel...Are yours English?You had a picture of a blue bitch with redtick pups ..I never got a reply before..If you want to chat about nite dogs you came to the right guy but we are on the wrong page for that!!!Lets stick with bassets on this subject it's a different game than coonhunting. As far as 100% the BS is pretty much correct!

I have 3 blueticks and 1 Redtick which I made a cross and had 3 bluetick pups, 2 redtick pups and 1 off the wall english colors. I kept a redtick pup out of the cross. I'll still disagree about bumping one day and then bumping the next day. Just like a dog will make you look like a liar one day and everything you claim the next day. I have hunted with many of hounds that ran trash one day but not the next. Just like I have seen many good hounds look like junk one day and not the next. I've been around hounds long enough to know that hounds are dogs........whether coonhounds, bassets, beagles, and etc.. They'll have you cussing and madder than anything one day and singing praises the next.........comes with running hounds. Running bassets or beagles is not much different than running coonhounds. Different game and different time of day. BTW, TRASH RUNNING and bumping trash is no different...........it's the same thing.

My opinion on the Entries is any Basset can be entered in it's class if the owner want to pay the entry fee. The rules are in place for a judge to DQ any hound that disrupts a hunt. All off-game and non hunting hounds should be DQ'ed in the field. If that happened in Deans example then Wiley would not have got HOY points and the class was still made! Keep in mind an OPEN class dog is usually an inexperienced or low drive Hound. The ones that deserve to move up will. Here is the AHBA off game rule If the hound runs deer, fox, coyote or elk. The judge does not have to see the deer, fox, coyote or elk to disqualify the hound. A hound shall be barred from all competitions in AHBA sanctioned hunts for 1 year if he runs deer, fox, coyotes or elk 3 times in a calendar year. It is not the intention of this rule to penalize the hound that is merely harking in on another hound, smells around, and then immediately returns to rabbit hunting. As it states, a hound shall be barred from all competitions in AHBA sanctioned hunts for 1 year if he runs deer, fox, coyotes or elk 3 times in a calendar year. Frank, are you proposing an addition to, or a replacement of, this rule. Personally I feel that the rule is fair, especially in the Open Class. The hound that runs trash 2 days in a row will be on thin ice the rest of the year. I think if there is a change to this rule it should be by class.

Buckshot...Let me ask you clearly are your coonhounds reg? and if so are they Reg as ENGLISH? My Blueticks are reg Blueticks not English.....Also where I come from our definitions are different...The type of dog that you talk about that screws up now and again ..That is what I call bumping off game!!! When you get a dog that smokes a deer or some type of off game and will run anything with hair or fur on it...Thats trashrunning!!! Ican tolerate a dog that may "BUMP" off game on occassions but if you can tolerate a "TRASH RUNNER" You have more patients than I....There is no fun in listening or having a dog running trash!!!!!!or having to go to a trial and draw out with someone who doesn't care if there dog runs junk!!!! Eric.. I'd like this to be an addition if possible and again it would be a proposal to be voted on!!!!