Come on Frank you didnt take the bait. But I could use your advise on how to break a basset of running deer. John Wyodgla and I were hunting a couple of weeks ago and a half hour into our hunt my hound took a deer and ruined the rest of my day. What techniques to you use so you are sure they wont run a deer. Bob

Now Bob I heard you made the cardinal sin and forgot your little God complex at home. That would have made short work of that run. I know my dogs run at least one deer a year usually in the late summer, but thank goodness I have had my finger on the button and they realize that if they do that they better know the stop, drop, and roll technique to stop me from continuing to push that button. :lol: That always seems to remind them for the rest of the hunting season. No gaurantees, but it works pretty good

Hi Bob, We utilize a breaking box alot, that way the dogs do not associate the collar with the deer or what ever scent we use, we also use collars but on the lowest setting that the dog will respond to as a reminder when needed.It also works good for when i try to call Droop in and he stops and looks at me then runs the other way as fast as he can

Maverick, you are not supposed to point out my forgetfullness. You are right if I had a collar on Arnold I would have corrected it then. I was also wondering if Frank had any sure fire ways to break dogs since he sounded pretty certain his hounds dont run deer. Nightshift, what is a breaking box? Bob

There are several methods for breaking hounds from running trash!!!!Not everyway will suite every individual!!! What I am about to say works for me and in no way do I intend to offend anyone.....If the BOX that Night Shift is speaking off is the John Wicke Method it at times has its place but is antiquated way of thinking or a patch remedy for the easy way out! To me the only time I have used this is with a hound that wouldn't break off of trash with normal means and most of them where just short of the bullet...More often than not these dogs never turned out any good anyway...but yet because of this method I did end up with one of the better coonhounds I've ever had..so it does have its place I suppose.....Also as Night shift has mentioned making a dog collar wise.......this means the dog becomes aware of it may be corrected while the collar is on but is wise to when it isn't there and will trash!!! This also takes time and effort to make sure this doesn't happen...Dummy collars are usually the way.. that means well in advance before you start to use a shock collar that you put a collar of similar weight and feel on the hound sometimes two weeks and before you go out you make the change to the live collar and than the dog really doesn't get collar wise..It doesn't end there you put the dummy back on when you get home...and on and on till your convinced there trash breaking is over....This can work to your adantage sometimes if a dog does become collar wise especially if you use tracking collars...Think about that!!!! My hounds from the very first time they go to the field have a tracker and a shocker on them....They NEVER go to the field without a tracker!!! By the time my dogs are a year or so old, they know that I'm putting a collar on them they know they are going hunting and the FUN is about to begin..In fact they usually gather around and wait for there trackers...When they see me comming to the kennel from the house and I got collars in my hand the Racket begins..... Shock collars are missused more than they are used properly..I use them for one reason and one reason only..Mine is called an UltraII trashbreaker and the name says it all I use it for trash breaking and that is it.........Have you ever seen a dog shiver in fear because it is so scared it might do the wrong thing...Watch some of the birddogs I seen a few coonhounds that way also...The people who use shockers like that do not deserve the right to own a dog!!!!!!!!!..........................................To me trash breaking is part of the whole process don't use a collar because short commings of training... If a dog doesn't come to you or mind you...IT"S YOUR FUALT... you didn't take the time while the dog was young to train it that way.....don't blame the dog and use a shock collar because your to lazy to train a hound to come heal and mind properly!!! Never hit a dog...........Never beat a dog for running trash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If my hounds ever runs trash I can usually call them of off it or when they finally stop they are not affraid to come back to me as they know there isn't a BEATING waiting for them they just know old dad is glad to see them...The next day they usually get a refresher on what not to chase with the shock collar!!! the key to this is after the lesson make sure you get a run of the proprer game....this is a must!!!!!!.......My training method is as such....To the best of my ability I try and keep a young hound on the game of choice...They ALWAYS have a shocker on them at all time along with a tracker......if they trash you can nip it in the bud right then and there..a young hound is very impressonable if they get away with it, it can give them the idea it may be alright again..This is where alot of people make the mistake and don't do anything UNTIL IT RUNS TRASH!! Then is sometimes alittle to late!!!! PROACTIVE training works much better!!!!! Even after I fell the dog is well trained on its game I'll put them in a bunch of deer or find a fox and turn them out coyote what ever the trash may be..If they take it they are in for a shock!!!If they don't seem to intrested I still TICKLE them on a low setting to reinforce that off game is bad!!!! All of this doesn't happen over night and every hound reacts differently!!!!Everyones methods are different I've tried several so far this has been the best to me.....A shock collar in the proper hands is an invaluable tool A MUST to a serious houndsman......In the wrong hands......KAAKAA!!!!! Alot of hounds will not trash on there own but in bad company are just as bad!!! This is tough that is why you need to run a shock collar with a known trouble makers.....I at one time had too many hounds and trained on to be a deer dog... I can tell when she opened on deer!!! Turn the others out and if anyone opened on her track they were in trouble!!!!!ZAP!!! Not everyone has the luxuary of that as I don't now either... And Thats That~~~ The Word According to FRANK!!!

Frank, thank you. That is the best explanation I have been able to get yet. Bob

Frank, Very good explanation. The breaking box i am refering to, may be the John Wick method i dont know. What it is , is a modified dog box, that has an expansion metal floor built into it, the floor is connected to a fence charger, some people simply use a shicking collar, the dog stays inside the box for 1 week and is treated 3 times a day, with scent that is piped in from an outside source by a fan through pipe, when the scent is applied the box is charges. As Frank stated this is usually used as a last resort. I use it on young dogs alot as a way to introduce them to unwanted scent. using a collar often requires the dog to be able to visually see the game, and the excitement can be an issue, this way they are broke off the scent before they have off game jump up in front of them. I use my collar for obedience training also, but like frank said it is very important the dog knows what you want when you give a command,This can only be learned from working with your dog alot. but sometime it is neccesary to give a low setting nick or simply warning beeps to remind the dog that you are in control and not them. The best trained dog can be stuborn on occasion. Another VERY important point that i dont recall Frank making, if you are going to shock a dog, make absolutly sure what they are running. I have hunted with people who jumped on the button too quick, and actually spooked the game off desired game. In other words if you dont see it dont shock. This is my input, but like in every subject opinions vary, you have to figure out what works best for you. and you have to understand your own dog and how they respond to things, for some dogs a simple scolding works, and the dog will come back. in other cases nothing will break the dog, it all depends on the dog, and how willing you are to put the time and effort into breaking the dog.

Nightshift, Yes the box is the basic Wicke box!!! Everybody over the years has modified them here and there to suite themselfs...Thanks for reminding me about the tone button on some collars...again a great asset when used properly.....I guess when you spoke of make sure about pushing the button at the wrong time that is what that KAA KAA covered but I guess I took it for granted that everyone might have known that...Thanks for the helpful input.....The point about shock collars and sight chase I think may need some clarification....I NEVER shock a dog on a sight chase......IE..hunting coonhounds at night......you've got to make sure the hound is using there scenting ability if you break them off of trash at all cases try not to get a sight chase....As I spoke of earlier when I turn a dog out on trash I should have mentioned,don't let the hound see the game , let the hound start using there nose than it's the time to correct it!!!In my opionion should a hound get a sight chase....I wait till they put there nose down and then they treatment starts...Again this is only my technique...where we differ in opinion is about the behaing part Yes a shock collar can shorten the time issue but I do not and will not us it for that....It doesn't mean that it can't and shouldn't be used for that!! My reasonong is such,doesn't make it correct but,I only want my hound to associate the shock with bad game not me not liking how they behave... Again only my opinion.....If I ever owned a dog that I felt needed that they were gone!!! I guess I need to tell you that I can just about tolerate anything about a dog One thing that I will not tolerate is a mean dog...more so than that..I dispise a treefighter....That is the only time a hound won't make the trip home from the woods!!!!!!I don't say it often but 60 grs. of lead cures that issue posthaste!!!!! We got some good stuff going on here I believe and thanks...lets try another issue!!!! It can be like point counter point..at least some of us will try and keep the board intresting....HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT ARTFICAL SCENTS!!DEAD GAME ETC. FOR TRAINING HOUNDS???? YOU FIRST.............. I must warn you even if I agree with you I'll have a counter point!!!!!!!Maybe we should start this on another part of the board!!!!!What do you think about that ERIC help us out here...I also may need to add here I love the sport of hunting hounds if it EVER becomes ILLEGAL I now I'll be a criminal!!!! I love all of my hound and my BLUETICK COONHOUNDS are my first love and will be the last....If I ever have to go to one hound it'll be blue dog,but that doesn't mean I don't have the same passion for my bassets ....As BUCKSHOT has said ..IF it wasn't for coonhounds I probably would never owned bassets.....

well Frank i wanted to give a counterpoint, but i agree with alot of what you say, no mean dogs go home, and coonhounds will alwayd be first, lol just ask my wife during November . lets set up another post and get some good debates going. Just everybody remember it is only opinions and dont get anything personal. If it hadnt been for my wife wanting another basset pup, and me hunting with my dad and his beagles i would have never imagined i could have this much fun hunting rabbits, especially in a competition setting

Sounds good I'll post it in THE DOG HOUSE SECTION....

Sorry Frank I didn't get on the computer yesterday. I was off work and went running my dogs. Yes, the dog house is the place for this discussion. It will make it easier for people to reference later if they want to. If there are no objections I will move the training part of this thread to that section.